There is at least something humorous in realizing that optimism is still the basic human condition. You can read a blog for almost a year, a blog full of despair and regret and confusion, and at the first sign of light, you can be full of I-told-you-so's and I-knew-it-would-work-out's. It seems everyone does want Hollywood to be right. Everyone thinks that real life can and should be happily ever after.
It's not, you know. I can make breakthroughs (whether or not I really have is a separate issue), and that still doesn't suddenly make things more likely to work out well. In the course of having issues, I have created issues. Solving one set doesn't work like a magic wand, magically making everything better. Let's say that my issues with sex with my husband are that I was traumatized by my first experience and the normal, but severe, pain of a first time. Let's say I come to terms with that and I'm willing to work through that. Does that erase many months of making issues about intimacy? For that matter, does that erase the issues with intimacy that have arisen as a result of saying no to intimacy for so long? It doesn't. The issues with intimacy are in addition to the issues with sex, however they were first created. And also - my willingness to experiment with my own discomfort does not suddenly make my husband feel more kindly toward my many months of withholding. And of course, the fact remains that the willingness is transitory, and that the days when I'm willing are not necessarily going to coincide with the days when sex will work out. Maybe it's during niddah. Maybe my husband's out that night. So it's entirely possible that he'll never find out that I have been at times more willing to try something new.
History never goes away, and it's not always possible to change the future. Sorry to be a downer, but such is life.
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"Let's say that my issues with sex with my husband are that I was traumatized by my first experience and the normal, but severe, pain of a first time."
ReplyDeleteThat wasn't the issue and you've told us clearly that it began even before that.
And honestly, following your ups and downs on this blog really did NOT leave me feeling optimistic... but rather HOPEFUL that things will work out for you.
ReplyDeleteSo watching/hearing from you that it may be, even if it is two steps forward, one step back... is happy news... and not the "I knew, I saw it coming" type.
that was me, anonyMS :)
ReplyDeleteK - That might or might not be the issue; that wasn't the point. The point was just that fixing the original issue might not solve the whole problem. But here's something interesting I've started thinking about: if the problem is psychological (as it likely is), and I become convinced that I understand what it is, and I learn to overcome what I'm convinced the problem is, does it matter whether or not I've found the right problem? The mind is a fascinating place.
ReplyDeleteaMs - Optimism is a GOOD thing! I-told-you-so-itis is an unfortunate facet of human nature, but not necessarily a bad outlook on life. And I appreciate the positive feelings that are expressed; they help me keep going.
Ah Bilingual... that is so in line with (my life-outlook) and what I tried conveying all along (and what kept/keeps my hope up for you... should the breakthrough happen...) that it's "Really in the mind" (and you betcha... what a fascinating place it is!)
ReplyDeleteIt's easy to say, and see by others... not so easy to implement in own situations (when looking to get your "mind over the matter" so to speak...) But worth the effort.
Taking a step back from many a situation... you can see how powerful a factor an ATTITUDE (Mind again!) was/is.
And of course... Optimisim is a good thing (I meant to say I wasn't "OVERLY optimistic" but rather hopeful... but that's all semantics, aint it? :)
And I tell you Bi... life can be REALLY good... you just have to "WILL IT" - (hard work, great payoff!) And when I say LIFE I mean every facet of it... especially spouse/true-love life...
Remember: TRUE-Love (INCLUDING the heart-stopping my-husband-just-made-my-heart-flutter type) is there for the taking... no matter if it's belatedly developed... You just have to learn what "does" it for you... a little tip...as the Torah/Sages (and all the experts) say: The more you GIVE the more you'll FEEL and GET. And, you have a little bonus: If I remember correctly from your previous writings... your husband really behaved gently/gentlemanly throughout.... that should make it so much easier to foster feelings of endearment towards him (as soon as your mind gets you to a more positive place/attitude towards him/marriage etc.)
I wish you only the very best!!
anonyMS
I'm back for more :)
ReplyDeleteRegarding the intimacy issues... just so you know - even the best marriages have their up and down periods with the intimacy/sex thing...
Your problem here is you have yet to establish a "baseline"... a foundation of "we're good, sexually/emotionally/intimately... we've had our good times - even if it's not happening today - it'll happen tomorrow again. Or the day after."
So I guess that's your task now - to establish that foundation...
Also - why not be open and honest about it with your husband? TALK about that... the times where you ARE ready... but it's not possible because ---- ... etc... real heart-to-heart talk... you'd be surprised what that can do to your relationship!
AnonyMS
No, Bi, I don't believe in the cognitive-behavioral approach for long term change, having tried it myself with very destructive effects.
ReplyDeleteBut that's me. And we've discussed it before, many times.
You're welcome to prove me wrong.
But Ki- I am also basing my assumptions in having some common ground with Bi - in that we ascribe to the "Torah way of Life" (namely Orthodox) of which, building one's character traits and changing behaviors (as necessary) is a major componenent...
ReplyDeleteYou know, recently - I thought of you Bi - when I read this line - "The greatest distance in the universe, is the distance between the heart and the mind." on one of my other favorite blogs :) a very compelling blog writting by a few women named June, Sara, Orli, Jackie, Cindy, Sylvia, Marsha & so many more called "Miami Mussar Vaad" located here: http://miamimussarvaad.blogspot.com/2009/12/heart-to-heart-moving-through-process.html
It's an amazing approach to Mussar... a HAPPY, POSITIVE approach - which TRULY changes lives - almost instantly!
I mean, when I read one post, and I had a similar circumstance... it gave me so much strength to deal with it the harder but better way... and it gets easier to build on that - once you have a positive experience or two...
So - fancy terms aside (CBT etc.) I cannot think how someone can dismiss the idea that it's the ATTITUDE and THINKING behind a situation that most impacts such said situation. (Our processing of it, our reaction to it, etc.) when as Torah Jews... we live like that. At least ideally we're supposed to. And can reach to it when we slip...
That blog? HIGHLY recommended! (Miami Mussar Vaad by a bunch of women with a POSITIVE and HAPPY attitude towards Mussar... and concrete examples how they try to implement it in real life!)
anonyMS
"The greatest distance in the universe, is the distance between the heart and the mind."
ReplyDeleteEntirely incorrect; a healthy personality is when one's emotions and rational thought processes are integrated.
I have used cognitive behavioral techniques to address what were predominantly behavioral problems, such as temper, or for short-term problems, such as a rush of fear getting in the way of a particular step (although that in itself is tricky- because sometimes fear is right and the course of action is wrong- so use with caution. I did it only because I recognized from my behavior history that the fear was usually wrong.)
But in general, for long term emotional issues, it is entirely destructive. The only way to deal with jealousy, for example, is to acknowledge and express it. I can deny and convince myself out of it, sure, but then I'm likely to dislike that person, and undermine them in various subtle, unconscious ways.
I can convince myself that I'm not angry, but then I'll act out my resentment in a million unconscious ways as well, or else my anger will turn into depression. In fact, I'll be MORE likely to have bursts of temper than if acknowledge my anger and seek to address it at its root source.
Regarding your invoking of the one-true-torah-way to buttress your point, I will suggest that your interpretation of religion is probably the result of your preferred method of coping rather than the other way around. We pick and choose what is meaningful to us. The mussar movement is only one stream of thought within Orthodox Judaism. (Yes, when I was in Bais Yacov, I too thought it was the only one.) But then again, I'm not Orthodox.
K- I'm not even seeing where' we disagree all that much ;)
ReplyDeleteIt is agreed when there's a gap btw the heart and the mind (well integrated rational and emotional processes) one isn't functioning optimally...
No one is saying - DON'T acknowledge your feelings... rather, deal with it head-on. But know, they are in fact, only "feelings" - and you CAN work on changing your "attitude" (charachter traits, feelings etc.) That's what we as human beings are here to do.
A situation is just that.
Your reaction to a situation is controllable.
Perhaps there's a RIGHT way to control it. (Can even be your way: Acknowledge your jealousy. Deal with it. Try to work on yourself. at the point you can deal with that said situation reigning in your jealousy... you have matured, and triumphed and you're at a place you'd rather be - obviously. Otherwise if it wouldn't have bothered you in the first place to notice/work on it... :)
Wallowing in your EMOTIONAL processes... is denying yourself freedom from it. You gotta deal with it, see how you can improve your "dealing" with it... and MOVE ON. No one is telling you not to admit that your'e hurt, or angry etc. Quite the contrary... but don't wallow in it!! Don't stay stuck there! And don't limit yourself by thinking "if I'm angry, it must be the ONLY right reaction to this situation". Especially when you truly desire a different outcome. Then it's only understandable that you're ready for an "attitude" adjustment attempt... (how did I come up with that - omg.)
And for the record, I'm not the typical cookie-cutter type/Bais Yakov/Orthodox... woman.
I think for myself. Admittedly, within the framework of the Torah way of living.
Which I got the feeling you were implying.
This is NOT AT ALL the discussion here, even. (Frum or Not, Torah way of life or not... I just threw that in - as my basis for a few of my assumptions...)
So I say again "Attitude, is EVERYTHING. The key to great living... is striving to have the right positive ATTITUDE to every situation." (granted, it won't always happen... but it's a goal worth striving for.)
AnonyMS
Yes, we disagree completely.
ReplyDeletewith apologies to Bi (for hijacking this post a bit ;)
ReplyDeleteki- Then, I must be misreading you...
Quoting you: "Entirely incorrect; a healthy personality is when one's emotions and rational thought processes are integrated."
and
"only way to deal with jealousy, for example, is to acknowledge and express it."
then perhaps we mean something different by "integrated" because I do not believe that their is a right positive attitude for every situation regardless of how we feel about. I do not believe that we should lie to ourselves as bi was talking about in this post. I refrain from using the words control and emotion in the same sentence (I do however, talk about controlling behavior).
ReplyDeleteEmotions are similar to physiological sensations. (And indeed, they have predominantly physiological properties: tears, heart rate, hormone secretion...).
Take for example, going to the bathroom. I can control or ignore the sensation, but there are limits to how far I can go without experiencing dire consequences. No matter how positive my attitude. In addition, the energy that I will expend on controlling that sensation can overtakeme to the extent that it will seriousy interfere with my functioning in other areas.
Same for hunger, thirst and similar physiological sensations.
emotions are not always correct, just as the body sometimes over reacts (for example an autoimmune response), so do our emotions sometimes, and sometimes they react to an erroneious perception of a situation. But forcibly adopting a cheerful attitude will do nothing to differentiate between these situation.
Just checking in... here's to hoping that your life is a little lighter, and sweeter than last you left off... and that things are working out for you...
ReplyDeleteAnonyMS