No, this is not about anything illegal. This is about solutions. You wouldn't believe how many (or which!) rabbis have advised me to use alcohol to "get in the mood" - not only for sex, for for cheerfulness in general. And yes, sometimes I do follow that advice. However, I still feel pretty strongly that a problem that is best dealt with using drugs and/or alcohol is probably a problem that needs a different solution. I can't say, "Yes, I'll stay married if I can just stay drunk." It would make my job way more difficult, among other things. Alcohol is not a solution, even when it tastes good.
Drugs, then. Well, since I first realized that I didn't think this would work, I've been on birth control. Oral birth control, as everyone knows, is basically hormone therapy. Girls have lots of hormones, and the gender as a whole is pretty well known for mood swings and such even when there is nothing artificial going on in the body. All girls have "times of the month", and all the jokes - frum and not - agree that women change their minds and feelings for what seems to be no reason at all. Taking hormones can either regulate your cycle, and therefore your mood swings, or it can do nothing for your mood, or it can cause depression, anxiety, and a host of other problems.
And other drugs? My husband went through cycles of wanting me to take an anti-depressant. I even considered it for a while; it was only the fact that the psychiatrist who my psychologist recommended kept not calling back so that I could schedule an appointment. I would have moved on to a different doctor, but by the time I gave up on the recommended one, I wasn't convinced that anti-depressants would really help.
It took me a while to think that maybe, just maybe, the birth control was affecting my attitude to my marriage. I'll admit that. I was miserable before I started taking the pills - in fact, my misery was the reason I started with birth control - and I didn't really think that the pills were contributing or prolonging or having anything to do with my mental and emotional state. I'm still not convinced that they are, because I can be happy and pleasant and my old normal self when I'm at work or hanging out (alone) with friends; I only fall apart when I'm with my husband or being asked to talk about my marital problems. Then, I cry, with very little preliminaries anymore. Other than that, my mood has normal fluctuations: sometimes I'm in a good mood, and sometimes I'm in a bad mood. Granted, my bad moods are more and more frequent than they used to be, and they tend to be worse, but they're not constant. They do mean that I have a much harder time dealing with the usual disappointments of life, things that I used to be able to handle with no trouble at all, but they're not constant. There are times when I'm in a better mood, and that carries me through even the painful, depressing things. They're still painful and depressing, but I don't fall apart.
Every time a commentor shortens my pseudonym to "bi", I think "bipolar". Is that what I am? But bipolar people also have manic moods - extreme happiness. I haven't been extremely anything, except miserable, since I got married; my life is pretty serious. My issues are serious, anyway.
So therapy, then. I'm not afraid to admit that I have problems. I'm not afraid to go to a therapist. I do think that it makes more sense to work through issues within marriage rather than get divorced, work through issues, and try again - but only if the marriage itself has potential. I can see potential in my marriage whenever I'm not around my husband. I can see all the potential in theory, in my head, even in my discussions with rabbis and therapists. I see the value; I know it's there. It's only that I don't feel convinced when I'm with my husband; then, all the doubts coming crashing down. I don't know if it's lack of attraction, or depression, or what. I don't know if it's this marriage, or something within me. How am I supposed to find that out if our entire past history is dragging heavy and not allowing any room for personal exploration?
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Damn, tried to post 3 times and it hasn't worked once. So going to type it all out again, but will be very brief:
ReplyDelete1) bi-polar is the new AD(H)D. Everyone has it. You won't find a solution exploring this direction. Even if you had a diagnosis, you still have to make a decision.
2) Hormonal contraception is almost definitely causing, or at least exacerbating the depression. Use something else (there are halachic alternatives).
3) Alcohol might be a reasonable idea as a temporary solution to increase libido and get your sex life working. But it is a BAD idea in general and you need to avoid it becoming a crutch or a long term idea.
4) Either way, you need to make a decision and commit to it. Either you're in, and you're going to make the marriage work and be happy or you're out and you're going to be happy. Either way, you need to 1 decide and 2 commit. The sooner you make the decision the better for everyone. Remember also, not making a decision, is also a decision.
Why do you think your husband is sticking with you, despite your obvious distaste for him?
a few bits of advice from a nurse with years ob/gyn as well as some psych experience.
ReplyDeletepsychotropic meds: can be hard to come off. so don't try them until you've tried everything else. everything else includes separation from your husband.
birth control: from your description, it doesn't sound like the problem. but just in case, why don't you stop the birth control. You should be practicing abstinence anyway.
(though if you feel better, it's probably the abstinence and not the birth control...)
you can also use a copper hormone free IUD. it causes cramping in the beginning but most people get used to it.
One quick comment for now.
ReplyDeleteI love the blog.
Blogging sucks, comments suck (speaking from experience).
Okay, here's my other comment.
ReplyDeleteI think religion is a source of horrible evil, and is probably the source of many of yours and other people's problems (yes, I know you have a lot of frum readers. If my comments make them squirm, they can go shtup themselves.)
OTD - while I agree that EVIL people (or people that seek to do/be horrible and EVIL) can use religion, or more specifically the Torah way of life, very easily AND effectively to do so...
ReplyDeleteIn my experience, The "Torah way of life" (what you'd call "religion") is actually something that enhances that which is already there.
Good OR Evil.
AnonyMs
>>How am I supposed to find that out if our entire past history is dragging heavy and not allowing any room for personal exploration? <<
ReplyDeleteThat is a very good question. And I feel for you so much!!
All I can come up with is, to repeat: Try to experiment "Focus on 100% Positives ONLY" for a specific chunk of short time - TOTALLY commit to it - and see what happens then.
Positives in yourself.
Positives in your husband.
Positives in your life in general.
Any time a negative thought creeps up - just dump it on the side "for afterwards".
Perhaps that's a tactic worth exploring?
It might open up a whole different "perspective" on yourself, your husband, your sitaution...
I'll also reiterate my recommendation to read the book "The Committed Marriage" by Rebbetzin Esther Jungreis... (it actually focuses on the importance of building the individual self as well... not only "do it for marriage-torah sake". (although that's a component too.)
AnonyMs
AnonyMs- this is what she does all the time. using neat little mental tricks to try to control her feelings and make them go away. this is what she did before she got married. that's why she's in this situation today.
ReplyDelete... but you can be sure she's going to love your advice. people love to be told do more of the same.
ReplyDeleteListen to your intuition, do not doubt yourself. you are the greatest authority on yourself and what you need from a relationship. Do everything you can to listen to yourself, and to act upon and honor what you hear. This will make you strong.
ReplyDeleteKisarita - don't we all use "neat little mental tricks" all the time... to survive... even thrive?
ReplyDeleteHeck - you just used the neat little mental trick called "reverse psycology"... didn't ya?
I think it's important enough to HEAR and CONSIDER what other's think/advise BUT then weigh it all, and make YOUR OWN decision. After all, when someone's in a rut it's hard to get a fresh perspective on things... and an outsider can really help that way.
And the "neat little mental trick" of being and thinking Positive - never did anyone any harm... quite the contrary.
So am not sure what got you so excited... especially coming from a nurse - who I'd expect to endorse a POSITIVE attitude... even with a so called short-term experiment of "putting aside negatives for right now" and focusing on only the positive!
a neat little mental trick is good as a technique now and then, not as a lifestyle.
ReplyDeleteI think her experience trying these neat little mental tricks proves my point.
I endorse clarity, which is unlikely, as long as you've made a career of tricking your feelings away.
"The body never lies."
(Judith Guest, Ordinary People)
והמבין יבין.
kis
(Hmmm... we're having this "side conversation" here... but I do hope you can benefit from it Bilingual...)
ReplyDeleteKisarita - To me, it seems she's actually "too tuned" into her feelings... putting too much pressure on herself to "have the PERFECT feelings - she expected to have"... and finding that huge gap between her previous expectations and actual reality difficult to handle... and wallowing in that "loss"... instead of potentially letting the "bright side" of life flourish.
She seems like she WANTS to and TRYING HARD TO achieve clarity... and that takes time and effort.
NOTHING wrong with using neat little mental tricks to try and make your life POSTIVE, and beautiful.
The heart follows actions most of the time. In fact, in marriage and life - ANY relationship will thrive more based what you are GIVING than GETTING.
And I think that's key here too.
BI - I think you may be a bit too focused on "what am "I" getting out of this marriage/relationship" as opposed to "what can I do today for my partner today"... to brighten his day.
Obviously, if after a consistent, COMMITTED try, it doesn't work - you have to find make the tough decisions...
Re: giving vs. getting. Living the life of a shifcha cnaanis is not giving enough?
ReplyDeleteasking for perfection? where do you see that?
forget about orgasms- she'd settle for mildly pleasant. or even just painless.
A small sampling of mental tricks that haven't improved the situation
ReplyDelete"This is one of those pieces of advice that actually makes sense to me: change as much as you can, do as many little things as you can, and maybe, just maybe, that will have an impact on your perception of the situation at large. And since my emotional commitment is largely a matter of my perception, and improving my emotional state would eventually contribute to a complete solution, I think it’s worthwhile to keep looking at the little things. "
"Being happy in this marriage involves not thinking very much. If I think, I realize all the things that are wrong with my relationship. "
"Mostly, I've been trying to fix my attitude to marriage by looking for other marrieds who've been through a painful beginning and looking for hope and insight from them. But there's another set of experiences to consider: the girls who didn't take the plunge"
"Sometimes I manage to convince myself and relax my body. Sometimes I get myself in the mood enough to play along or even act appropriately. "
"So I end up thinking that the reason we can't make that "click" happen is because we're not suited - and yet, again, when he's not around, I can convince myself of just how well we are suited. "
Kisarita - I'm curious:
ReplyDeleteHave you ever had/are you in a successful relationship?
(Because if you were, you'd know that all the points you requoted above - may be part of a normal process... for some it happens smoother, for some more difficult. Anyone in a good/great relationship knows there are plenty ups and downs... that may resemble ALL OF THE issues/sitautions above. The only problem HERE is, as BI discloses - there is no "foundation", no "good times" to bank on. Which is something BI should and - by the points she makes - seems like she IS, focusing on trying to build. Which is to be commended, not dissuaded. The potential rewards are great - and worth the effort.
(PAINFUL? It should NEVER be painful. I didn't pick up on that as the main issue here at all... but maybe I missed that. And if so - it should definitely be followed up with an OB/GYN (female preferrable - who'd understand anatomy from BI's perspective, better.)
BI - you try to find that emotional connection - that touchpoint... it's within your reach. I really think so. And when it happens - it's magical and worth it.
Worth even "faking" it once, twice three times. Worth exaggerating a few times... and then there's strong chance barriers are overcome.. and it becomes "for real". (Obviously that's based on the fact your spouse has some "redeeming" points of "attraction" in your mind/heart... be it how he's accepting this situation, a sweet personality/trait, physical features...
hey this blog is about bilingual, not about me... kisarita has her own blog, just click.
ReplyDelete"it should never be painful" true. but sex without arousal IS often painful. And that is not a gynecological condition, that is within the realm of normal female physiology.
(sex without arousal can also by psychologically painful if takes place on a continuous basis)
i suspect that sex was the issue of the therapist post, partly because bi refrained from telling us what exactly he was talking about. Also because she described being asked to do something that was very difficult for her, and elsewhere she has described sex that way. But based on the following post (drugs) it could also be that he was reccommending antidepressants.
Sex can be made less painful... can "build in" any type of "lubricants" (like KY etc.) into foreplay...
ReplyDeleteAlso, basic "sex skills" can be taught to a couple... such as "it takes longer for a woman to "warm up" to things... and here's a couple of things that may help... AS WELL, a woman SHOULD tell her husband... "talk to me first, then hug me a bit... then maybe a little back rub/massage..." whatever she thinks may warm her up a bit to the whole thing of sex.
And of course, there are very basic touchpoints for a woman... that, first, a woman should know about... and then, the husband should be made aware of that.
BTW - a change of scenery may do lots of good that way too.
For example, had a friend who had some issues with the whole idea of sex... (beginners issues) and was able to "let go" - first at one-night getaway to the Pocono's... they booked a room with a mini-private pool. And both being in a bathing suit (taking away the immediate threat of Uh-Oh there we go again trying...) had a bunch of fun "just fun" in the pool... and it had a great effect on her... and she claims ever since... they've been more open about what they both want/expect in terms of sexual relationship... it really opened new doors for that couple.
Been there, done that. If you're not aroused KY doesn't do squat. And when you are aroused, you don't need it.
ReplyDelete(your gyno uses ky too, does that make it sexy?)
If you're just not attracted to someone, and/or you have sexual issues (not sure which it is with bi)the issue is not one of technique. There isn't a magic touch that's going to make everything all better.
I already gave my prescription a while ago.
kis
Hmmmm.... interesting topic. Here is my opinion, for what it's worth. Obviously none of you know me so it makes my credability a bit shaky, but what the heck. Its an older post anyways so who know's, maybe no one will read my comment.
ReplyDeleteI understand how you feel BI. I too have been there. I was married to a man that didn't do anything wrong, he was great, and thats why NO ONE understood why I walked away. But I didn't love him, I didn't enjoy or want to have sex, and I seriously thought ending my life would be better than being in that marriage. Truly.
But then I walked away and things started to really approve. I hit a stand still where I started to feel depressed a bit again at one point, but a low dose antidepressant worked wonders. The combination of the meds, talking to a therapist at church and ending my marriage was what brought me back to sanity. NOw I am happily remarried and feeling back to "normal." I know meds aren't for everyone, and the other postings where correct, getting off of them is sometimes very hard. I missed a refil while on vacation once and went 6 days without my beloved zoloft. At first I was fine, but on the 6th day I had a complete break down where my mind was racing and I couldn't shut it off, I was screaming at my husband and kids and literally crying hystercally for no reason. So much so my husband forced me to the ER where we figured out what the problem was (much to my utter embaressment) Anyways- my point is don't give up. You CAN and deserve to be happy. Find out what works for YOU and don't take all the comments to heart.
i read it....
ReplyDeletejust wanted to emend my prev statement... lots of docs don't reccommend the IUD to women who don't have kids yet
ki"s